Re: [cobalt-users] New Raq3 GUI finished?!?

[Jeff Lasman <jblists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Zeffie wrote:

> Ohhh I'll tell ya the Potato version is a pain in the butt!  So far I have
> tried only 2 installations (simple and advanced) and I'm not as happy as I
> was with their older version "Slink".  I get the feeling that they are
> moving more to the make your own version/cd with what you want mode.  In
> trying to burn a cd for it I had to hunt for a while.  They keep wanting me
> to make a floppy and install over the net or make "Your own custom
> CD/Version".  I made a cd so expect a new revision within a month :(

Of course <smile>.

"My" version of Red Hat, if I ever get around to it <smile>, would make
changes to the Red Hat install database file, to install the RPMs I
thought (or rather a concensus of my ISP friends <smile, yet again>
thought) would be suitable for an Internet server.  I'd need a suitable
RPM of proftpd of course, and one of postfix, and one of ssh, and they'd
have to default to configuration file settings we thought secure, so
we'd probably have to create our own RPMs.

> Cobalt users
> If you wanted to build a server with this software you would have to
> "select" each and every package you want to install.  From the type of "ftp"
> to the type of "ls" program.  In essence you need to know a couple hundred
> programs rather well so you know what you want and what you don't so your
> server goes faster.  (Less overhead)

The Red Hat install is by nature, not as secure as I like an Internet
server to be, but I don't remember anything on it that would slow down
the server.  In fact I seem to remember that Red Hat uses inetd (now
xinetd, which I think needlessly complex) to start wu_ftp as needed,
while I install proftpd to work directly as a daemon, so perhaps my run
slows down your machine (probably imperceptably) more.

The key is that it's hard to create a secure system from scratch, and
the reason most ISPs and admins have switched from Slackware (arguably
the "first" popular linux distribution) to others is because we have too
much work already, and want someone else to maintain the distribution
for us, and we don't like the time it takes to configure a Slackware
installation.

Cobalt has made an awful lot of changes to "base" Red Hat Linux.  The
average user will never get there.  Of course in fairness s/he probably
doesn't need to.

Note, for example that a few days ago when a new linux vulnerability was
discovered, my systems were NOT at risk.

> Cobalt devices allow the user to automatically have a large set of these
> packages that get used at one time or another depending on the user.  Cobalt
> has already made the decision for you and added a system by which you can
> control certain sections of the operating system.  Which gets you out of
> knowing a zillion packages.  It's a good thing...

It certainly is.

> > A while back I started working on an Internet-server class version of
> > RH, to be built on the latest version of RH with a cleaned up install
> > system, but I dropped it.  Is there a good Internet-server install on
> > Debian?  Or do I still have to make my own?
> 
> On slink I would say Yes.... both a basic and advanced versions that get
> updated automatically via a program built in to the base install.

Automated updating over the net of an already installed system, the way
Red Hat has started doing it with RH7?  I don't like that at all.  Even
though it means I need to look at the net for new vulnerabilities and
patches myself, I like to know what's going on inside my systems.

> Potato will allow you to make a cd with just what you want on it.  Yes you
> have to pick one by one from "ls" to "apache".  I'm working on this myself
> to be distributed later this year.  (not for cobalt's however)

And I presume this is exactly what Corel did when they brought out their
version of Debian.

> I think this is a good time to point out that even though the internet is
> only 4 or 5 years old (Err the popular version)

You don't have to tell me; I remember the exact day I invented it
<smile>.

> kernel development has
> increased dramatically...  Even the U.S. government is helping out!  Or
> should I say getting tired of all this bad code making them work harder. :)
> Kernel development will always have some bugs and it is very important for
> Cobalt (for example) to delay deployment of newer kernels until they are
> sure they are stable versions.  We are also dependent on them to send in
> there 'code' to be worked into the latest kernel.

I'll wait for 2.4.11 or so, as I said.

> Yep sometimes you just don't know how good you've got it and I think some
> people don't understand that.

Cobalt has tamed the beast.  But so many of us like just a bit of
wildness in our "beasts" <smile>.

Jeff
-- 
Jeff Lasman <jblists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
nobaloney.net
P. O. Box 52672
Riverside, CA  92517
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