Re: [cobalt-users] Memory pricing

[Jeff Lasman <jblists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Carrie Bartkowiak wrote:

> "Leasing" a RaQ? I'd be interested in URLs for this - I thought the
> only option besides dedicated server rental was to buy the RaQ
> outright.

Sorry, Carrie... I guess I just presumed everyone in the hosting
business knows about leasing.

Generally you go to your own leasing company, and they buy it from your
vendor of choice, and lease it to you.  Then you colocate it with me
(whoops, I meant with someone <smile>).

If you don't have a leasing company, then call just about any RaQ
reseller; most of them will have leasing company arrangements. 
Currently I don't sell or lease RaQs; that may change.

> I do know of *one* very large host who did something like this, but
> they were taking full advantage of the "RaQ4 OS slapped onto a RaQ3"
> scenario and using crafty language to get out of it. Can't even
> remember who that was now so I can go see if they've cleaned up their
> act.

Like in anything else, caveat emptor.  Lease from a reputable
organization.  And either take delivery yourself to send the box on to
your colo, or make sure your colo can tell the difference and that you
trust them.  At the very least get a serial number you can check with
Cobalt.  Actually your leasing company will want to do this, since they
own the box until the end of the lease.

> ROFL!!  I know it's the truth, but I expected you to say something
> else. That was classic, Jeff.  ;)

Thanks <smile>.  I've been told I'm good at that kind of humor ...
leading people on but not quite saying what they expect <smile, again>.

> Unless what they're really doing is ripping out your hard drive in
> the wee hours of the morning and sticking it in a more expensive
> machine, and the "monthly charge" is actually the difference between
> that machine and your original one. But if that's what they're doing,
> then they should be up-front about it.

Either way, if it's their (rented to you) system and it's gone from
being a 64mbRAM system to a 128mbRAM system, I can sure understand why
they believe they can charge the price for the higher system.  If they
rented the system to someone else it'd be a 128mbRAM system, so why
isn't it when they rent it to you?  It's the "rental" that gets you.  Of
course then they shouldn't charge you an "installation" charge.  Unless
they're charging you a "setup" charge for the new machine.  I agree,
they should be upfront about it.

> I agree with you here, but I do think there's a middle ground. For
> example, you could stick the RAM into a tester before putting it into
> the RaQ, or you could require that it is purchased from a particular
> vendor and the customer must send along a copy of the receipt as
> proof.
> If you had proof that this stick came from, say, Crucial, would you
> accept it then? Just curious.

Probably not.  It's MY machine, and should have MY memory in it.  That
way it's still a rental, and if it ever goes down we know who's
responsible.

> 1. The vendor had to be local to me (we have a lot of across-state or
> out-of-state vendors coming to our trade shows here on the east
> coast)

In California, 60 miles is still local <frown>.

> 2. For RAM, they had to put it in a tester right there in front of me
> before I bought it. We also took along a bad stick of RAM with us to
> go into the tester to make sure that it wasn't rigged.

Good idea <smile>.  None of the local vendors here have testers.  When
you find the stick that you want at the price you want it at and the
vendor has one stick left (or two, or three, if that's what you need),
are you under some kind of personal pressure to buy?  That's the
position I no longer allow myself to get into.

> 3. For other types of parts, I'd only buy names that I trusted
> (Western Digital, for example) where if I had a problem returning it
> to the vendor, I could return it to WD and get a replacement.

I run into situations a lot where merchandise at these shows is way out
of date or out of warranty, or for some other reason isn't carried by
the manufacturer.  And frankly, I no longer find it reaonable for the
time investment.

> I've found a fantastic local store here with pretty good retail
> prices and incredible customer service; the owner has forgotten more
> about computers than I've ever learned. I've happily sworn off the
> trade shows. ;)

While I still go to the shows, I buy only from vendors with whom I have
a non-show relationship.

> With the leasing option you mentioned that is a possibility. For many
> of the smaller start-ups, though, it's just too expensive to do it
> any other way. Co-lo prices aren't keeping pace with the competition
> server rentals are providing, and nowadays it's far less expensive to
> rent (with more bandwidth) than it is to co-lo.

And why would that be, Carrie?

Shall we use our heads and figure out there's got to be a reason?  Maybe
because colo houses are really delivering what they offer?  Ask me
offlist to quote you on colocation, or wait for my website to finally go
live <smile>.  It turns out we really do get what we pay for.

> Yes, sometimes you have to make a compromise with slower customer
> service or the like, but I'd say generally it's worth it to get your
> feet off the ground. Once you've got a client base and are pulling in
> some money, then you can look at buying - or leasing (if you knew
> about that option).

Usually it's oversold pipes.  In one case it was a house catering to
people no-one else would cater to... spammers, huge adult-sites... other
traffic generators.  Lots of denial-of-service attacks before I got
smart and left.  I finally figured out that if their network was getting
blocked and denial-of-service attacks there had to be a reason.

> Not all of us have the money to fork over for
> what we'd like to have, and will put up with something cheaper (in
> all meanings of that word) in the meantime to get us by until we do.

True.  But you still get what you pay for.  Let me tell you about an
"ahem" disagreement I once had with my (now ex) wife.

Times were tight.  Money was tighter.  I said we had to pay the business
expenses first before we paid even the house payment and groceries.  She
said no, we had to pay the house payment and groceries first.  I tried
to explain that if we didn't pay the business expenses then next month
we'd have no business and no income at all.  She never did understand
that.  But I still believe it.

> About time you stuck your head back here in the fray, Jeff! <smile>

Thanks <smile>.  There's a method to my madness.  I'm wanting to
increase my business <smile>.

> "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."
> --George Bernard Shaw

He also said something like this...

"Reasonable men tend to mold themselves to fit society's expectations,
while unreasonable men tend to mold society to fit their expectations. 
All progress depends on unreasonable men."

<smile>

Jeff
-- 
Jeff Lasman <jblists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
nobaloney.net
P. O. Box 52672, Riverside, CA  92517
voice: (909) 787-8589  *  fax: (909) 782-0205