Re: [cobalt-users] Memory pricing

[Carrie Bartkowiak <ravencarrie@xxxxxxxx>]

On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 09:35:43 -0700, Jeff Lasman mumbled something 
like:
>>It always pays to own your own system.  If you plan on being in the
>>business long-term you're much better off leasing a RaQ and
>>colocating
>>it somewhere.  The price may be a little higher for a year or so,
>>but
>>then the system is yours outright.

"Leasing" a RaQ? I'd be interested in URLs for this - I thought the 
only option besides dedicated server rental was to buy the RaQ 
outright.
I do know of *one* very large host who did something like this, but 
they were taking full advantage of the "RaQ4 OS slapped onto a RaQ3" 
scenario and using crafty language to get out of it. Can't even 
remember who that was now so I can go see if they've cleaned up their 
act.

>>It's absolutely not the cost so much as it is the
>>renumbering, reinstalling, etc., etc.

Tell me about it; I've become a pro at moving entire servers by hand. 
Ugh.

>>Sure, because they've got you where they want you, by the IP#s and
>>installations.  

ROFL!!  I know it's the truth, but I expected you to say something 
else. That was classic, Jeff.  ;)

>>customers are still there, a year or more later, long after they've
>>realized the low initial price is no bargain, simply because it's 
>>so complex to move.

That, and I think that the company you're talking about ties them 
into a 3-year contract, so they can't move even if they wanted to and 
were willing to do the work switching servers.

>>Depends what you mean by screwing.  

Well in this case, it's being charged every month for a piece of RAM. 
Charge me a little more for the RAM and make a profit - no problem. 
Charge me labor to put it in and make a profit - again, no problem.
That's realistic, hell that's good business.
But to charge both of the above and then a recurring fee for a stick 
of RAM - that's screwing. The extra RAM doesn't take any added 
support each month; it's a one-time thing, there is no reason 
whatsoever to charge monthly for adding RAM. 
Unless what they're really doing is ripping out your hard drive in 
the wee hours of the morning and sticking it in a more expensive 
machine, and the "monthly charge" is actually the difference between 
that machine and your original one. But if that's what they're doing, 
then they should be up-front about it.

>>If I rented out systems (which I don't), I'd never allow the second
>>option.  If there's something wrong with the RAM that shorts out my
>>RaQ, who's going to pay to replace it?  

I agree with you here, but I do think there's a middle ground. For 
example, you could stick the RAM into a tester before putting it into 
the RaQ, or you could require that it is purchased from a particular 
vendor and the customer must send along a copy of the receipt as 
proof.
If you had proof that this stick came from, say, Crucial, would you 
accept it then? Just curious.

>>Do you buy RAM from swap-meet
>>sellers, or from unknown sellers on eBay?  Lots of people do.  

I used to go to the trade shows each month, and followed a few 
guidelines when I did... 
1. The vendor had to be local to me (we have a lot of across-state or 
out-of-state vendors coming to our trade shows here on the east 
coast)
2. For RAM, they had to put it in a tester right there in front of me 
before I bought it. We also took along a bad stick of RAM with us to 
go into the tester to make sure that it wasn't rigged.
3. For other types of parts, I'd only buy names that I trusted 
(Western Digital, for example) where if I had a problem returning it 
to the vendor, I could return it to WD and get a replacement.

I've found a fantastic local store here with pretty good retail 
prices and incredible customer service; the owner has forgotten more 
about computers than I've ever learned. I've happily sworn off the 
trade shows. ;)

>>I like the third option a lot better... find a good place to put
>>your
>>own RaQ, and take responsibility for ownership yourself.

With the leasing option you mentioned that is a possibility. For many 
of the smaller start-ups, though, it's just too expensive to do it 
any other way. Co-lo prices aren't keeping pace with the competition 
server rentals are providing, and nowadays it's far less expensive to 
rent (with more bandwidth) than it is to co-lo.
Yes, sometimes you have to make a compromise with slower customer 
service or the like, but I'd say generally it's worth it to get your 
feet off the ground. Once you've got a client base and are pulling in 
some money, then you can look at buying - or leasing (if you knew 
about that option).

>>These
>>guys are just traders; they buy excess and/or distressed 
merchandise
>>(often pulls), and sell it at a meager profit; too meager most of
>>the
>>time to be worth their trouble if anything goes wrong.

I agree. With the computer shows, most of the vendors are selling 
refab'd equipment. With eBay, it's usually overstock or "slightly 
imperfect". If you're confident in your abilities as a tech this 
usually isn't a problem; and on eBay there's the feedback system to 
let you know the experience other people have had.
Again, it's a give and take situation, I suppose. I agree, but I also 
see  the other side. Not all of us have the money to fork over for 
what we'd like to have, and will put up with something cheaper (in 
all meanings of that word) in the meantime to get us by until we do.

>>Here was my last experience:

Egads. This whole thing you wrote about was a nightmare.
Hell, just thinking about driving through L.A. is a nightmare! ;)

>>(without any kind of formal testing as to
>>speed, dropped bits over time, with heat, etc.) 

I'd have been surprised if he even knew about things like dropped 
bits and heat. Most vendors know the ns speed of a chip but have no 
idea how to make sure if that's what it's running at.

>>Value Added Tax; it's much simpler to figure/collect than the U.S.
>>"sales tax" system. 

Sounds like a classic levy system. Anything's much simpler than our 
damn tax system, LOL. 
Ahh, if only we could get something nice and simple like that over on 
this side of the puddle... *wishful thinking*

About time you stuck your head back here in the fray, Jeff! <smile>

--
CarrieB
"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." 
--George Bernard Shaw