RE: [cobalt-users] Users not searching Archive First

["Dee Dreslough" <dee@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

>Re: John Cordiero's comments
Hi Y'all!

Heaven only knows who's administrating these lists, but I hope you're
listening:

>I didn't know I subscribe to a I never admined a server before in my life
>and have no etiquette list.

Alas, cobalts, with the nice gui and easy interface lure in those of us who
*haven't* admined before...so, unfortunately by nature of the product, it
kind of is a 'I've never admined a server' list. :)

I think we really need to break the list up even further: cobalt-users and
cobalt-newbies
Cobalt newbies could be 'the list of *first* resort'. If you can't get an
answer for that there, it should then go to cobalt-users.  And, the people
who subscribe to Newbies should be either pros who don't mind the way people
are posting to this list now, along with those of us who are completely new
to the servers or Linux, or majordomo.

>I are not here to save peoples asses who can't perform basic server admin.
I am
>here to help users with server specific problems which most have been
>covered extensively on this list.

The rule could be:  You'll (almost) never get flamed on Newbies...it's the
safe place to ask the obvious newbie questions.  Conversely, you'll (almost)
always get flamed on users if you don't >>>*prove*<<< that you've at least
tried the archives first.  (I think requring citing some kind of text or
URLs to show that you've at least given the archives a shot should be a
prerequisite for posting to users...)

Sometimes there are questions (like the majordomo configuration questions)
that are just plain *faster* to get answered by going to someone who's more
familiar with Majordomo. This saves that poor admin two hours of digging
through archives or struggling with Great Circle itself...but it wouldn't
bog down this cobalt-users list, that seems to be more focused with those
users who are very experienced.

By separating out us Newbies from the Veterans, it would give the Veterans
who don't want to have to deal with stupid questions a safe haven for their
discussions, and it will give us new folks a safe place to ask dumb
questions without coming into the gunsights of those veterans who feel the
list is not meant for quick-advice type questions.

On a personal note:
The sad fact is, I am now *scared* to use this list.  I only post when I'm
absolutely sure of what I need, and I'm sure it's not a 'stupid newbie
question'.  Problem is, as a newbie, I don't know which questions are
stupid. :) Like, right now I'm having trouble compiling a program on my
machine because it can't find some silly header file referred to by some
other header file, etc etc etc. I'm afraid to ask for help in here because
it *might* be a stupid question...and I'm just not up to getting flamed for
asking. So, I've spent two days now poking and prodding my machine trying to
redirect the program to a header file that might work, or figure out if I
put the tarball in the wrong place when I unpacked it and it needs to be
somewhere else...etc etc etc. when I'm willing to bet it's something a
veteran in here could clear up for me in 5 minutes. I have a few ideas of
what to try next, but no guarantee any of them will solve my problem...but
still, for wont of getting flamed, I do not post here. Instead, I will
'waste' several more days, admittedly learning as I poke and prod, until I
solve my problem.

>I have been stuck in UNIX and apache books for 2 years now why should we
give info
>like that away because others are to lazy or unresourcefull.

I don't think it's that the people who aren't doing the legwork are
lazy...often times, they're under pressure and need the answer fast.  So,
they risk the flames and post here, hoping some kind soul will help them
out.  Lucky for me, I'm not in a high pressure job (my boss is my husband)
and I can take the time to poke and prod and 'learn through osmosis', but I
understand these new sysadmins who can't.  They bought into the idea that
Cobalt could give them some ability to run their servers without being
people who had 2 years of eating and sleeping with a unix book under their
heads.  Not all of us have the luxury of 2 years of study, and now some of
us are in jobs where the boss is screaming bloody murder at them, and the
pain of suffering the flames is *less* than the pain of getting fired and
watching your family starve. :) So, why should we make it so painful for
them?  Let's find a way to help both groups by splitting up the list.

I understand your frustration, John, and I sympathize. We need to
restructure this list so everyone can get their work done better.

Warmest regards and respect -

Dee Dreslough
Self-professed Raq3 Newbie, Recently hacked, recently back. :)