RE: [cobalt-users] Get me off the ORBS list

["Donna" <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

>
> Comments inline:
>
> On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Carrie Linn Bartkowiak wrote:
>
> >
> > > Great, now ORBS is searching for "potential" spamming
> servers now and not
> > just tagging ones known for spamming.
> >
>
> Someone has to nominate you for testing.  They don't actively
search
> blocks of addresses.

Their claim is selective nomination. I've seen servers they've
hit and failed to break into, and ones that although they did
manage to find a hole, checking of the logs revealed that server
had never been exploited. Except by them, of course.

I like how they call it 'testing'. In reality, they are
attempting to break into your email server. When anyone else does
that, it's hacking.

While they say that no-one has the right to use any email server
or network, which is their defence for black-listing, on the
other hand denying them access to your server for any reason is
also black-listing offence. Disagree with their methods? another
back-listing offence. Decide to exercise your rights and talk to
a lawyer? another black-listing offence. You have to have a
system where there's one set of rules for everybody.

>
> > That was my first thought, too!
> > How wonderful it is for ORBS to be putting out a list of
> machines which
> > aren't entirely protected... gee, the spammers probably pay
> good money to
> > get a hold of that list, since they don't have to do the
> work themselves!

They don't have to pay for it, it's free!

> >
> Their motivation, imho miguided, is to *motivate* you to
> close your open
> relay.

It just seems too simple to me. Rather than their heavy-handed
threats and blacklists, it would be so much more helpful them to
state in quite simple terms, what hole they exploited, and how to
close it. That knowledge is their weapon against spammers - yet
they are not upfront with it.

They aren't dealing with spammers for they most part - they are
dealing with the spammer's victims - the people whose servers
have been hijacked, and resources stolen. If you leave your
window open accidentally, and I come in and steal things from
your house to 'teach you a lesson', do you think that's fair as
well?

> Yes it is simple, it is called pop before relay.  You can also
visit
> http://www.sendmail.org, you can visit http://mail.abuse.net
> and educate
> yourself about these folks that have led them to this point.

These are good resources for sure.

> but now that they're blacklisting INNOCENT servers
> as well it's just
> > plain wrong. Millions of people in different races and
> religions have died
> > because of this exact sort of bull$hit.  Just because I
> have the capability
> > to send mail doesn't mean I'm going to allow spammers to
> use my server and
> > won't take every legal action should I find one doing just
that.
> >
>
> Wow, that is scary you making that comparison.  I think
> simply you don't
> understand the problem of relaying.  This is classic example of
> both sides not understanding the other.  Don't take this wrong
but you
> truly have no clue as to how bad relaying is.  You both need
> to spend some
> time understanding how bad your relay is and what effect it has
on the
> Internet community.  These rogue groups are gaining more
> power and more
> respect as relay raping gains in popularity, your upstream or
colo
> provider could even be blackholed.  Now that is serious.

No, it's scary that these rouge organisations are springing up.
The internet is new, the laws are slow with catching up, so the
door is left open for this kind of 'wild west lynch mob'
psuedo-lawmaking. When they remove legitimate, and large networks
from the chain, the spammers don't care, it's everyone else that
is inconvenienced and out of pocket - which is precisely the
reason why spamming is such an enormous problem. Once again,
everyone pays except the spammers. Putting a curfew on women is
no way to control rapists. There's only one way to stop spammers
in the end, and that's by going straight to the source, and
prosecuting them - rather than persecuting everyone else.

--
Donna Lever
Smart Artist Web Services
http://www.smartartist.com.au/