[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

[cobalt-users] Let's get this over with...

All,

NEWSGROUPS and Categorical Web-Based HOW TOs are the next step...

Let me offer the flame-out option
-----------------------------------
Try searching for '~user' or any other common UNIX construction in the
archives--you can't--instead you get hits on 'user' because the search
engine ignores many specials. As I am sure you all know, there is an awfully
large difference between '~user' and 'user'. This deficiency should alone
be the death knell of ht:dig, the current engine.

Let's consider the overall objective:
------------------------------------------------------------------
Put yourself in the mindset of a cobalt user, you:

1) Might be a UNIX whiz with no Cobalt experience
2) Might be a high-end user with a little experience in several OSes
3) Might have little or no experience in UNIX or Cobalt.
4) Might be a UNIX & Cobalt whiz (why are you here?--to help others?
my point exactly)

How well are the needs of these users met by the current system?

What about usability?
---------------------------------------------------
From a usability standpoint, the current system is akin to standard search engine behavior (a la lycos, altavista, et al), whereas what is really needed for Cobalt users is much closer to the hand-indexed compilation that is exemplified by Yahoo--in our case, a categorized COBALT HOW TO.
Typically, when you seek information of this nature you have a target. That is to say when approaching the Cobalt Lists, you already have at least a few keywords in mind. In the current implementation, the information returned post-search is insufficient to allow for easy manual pruning, resulting in an often wasteful search with many dead ends. Let's face it, better subject lines alone aren't going to fix this. 

If that isn't enough, let's consider variations on a theme--TMTOWTDI
Frequently, there are a multitude of ways to solve a sys admin problem, but some are better than others. There are several ways to "turn off the GUI" or limit its access for security purposes, but which way is best, has least side effects, etc. The lists don't make threads about revision and interrelated solutions easily accessible to all. They are an underpowered forum for collaboration, because the knowledge to determine the quality of one solution over another is largely determined by the 80/20 rule--why should 80% of those needing an optimal solution watch the 20% experienced enough to judge merits hash it out dozens of messages at a time.
Personally, my job description does not include keeping an archive of everything ever posted to the Cobalt Lists. Call me a specifist, but I only want the answers to my questions and those answers ought to live on Cobalt's disks within no more than 3 clicks and a little typing from my browser. 

Let's consider bandwidth?
------------------------------------------------------
Can anyone tell me why it is better to get 100-200 messages per
day from Cobalt USER-SEC-DEV lists than to download x-over headers via NNTP
once or twice a day and then chose to selectively pull a few interesting articles?
The current system is outrageously wasteful of net bandwidth and a pretty piteous example of net-citizenship.
Think about it--the list membership is only going to go up (and in some sort of direct proportion to the annual sales of Cobalt).
As admins (or admins-in-training, or non-admins with a penchant for the bleeding edge) we should be more sensitive to this issue. 


Let's consider style:
--------------------------------------------------------------

Three inescapable conclusions exist about net-style and the current lists:
1) The petty flaming for netiquette violations that occur in the lists is already analogous to newsgroup behavior--so everyone should feel right at home.
2) Lurking as an in vitro learning tool requires an eventual encounter with an FAQ. These netiquette violations can be reduced with the regular FAQ posting found in most serious newsgroups. As I see it, "no FAQ=no foul", so stop throwing rocks at each other--you sound like a bunch of undersexed unix.
3) Look at this from the top down--the simple fact that every new Cobalt customer asks the same spectrum of questions (perms, cgiwrap, php, DNS, service mods [read--warranty violations], security concerns, updates, etc), runs the risk of igniting the wrath of the petty for some innocent netiquette faux pas, and still comes up empty-handed is a complete INDICTMENT of the current system. 

In conclusion
---------------------------------
Because the newsgroups can have greater categorical detail in naming, the postings to and subsequent archiving of the groups would be naturally self-categorizing (i.e. cobalt.raq3.ups would speak for itself).
Lastly, and most importantly, the big picture--whether it's lists or newsgroups, either should be viewed as nothing more than a gathering mechanism for the regular collation and publishing of categorical HOW TO web pages, thereby facilitating easy access, lower frustration, and good karma for all. 

Archly Yours,

JP




At 10:08 AM -0400 8/27/00, Steven Werby wrote:

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000, Zeffie wrote:


 > Mark, have you tried searching the archives?  I believe you just need to
 add the

 > Steven Werby {steven-lists@xxxxxxxxxxxx}

 Steve I'm glad you like the archives so much but will you get off the
 "search the archives kick already.


If you post a  well-constructed, persuasive message to the list
letting everyone know why suggesting that users should search the archives
is bad, I'll consider it.  Though there's a lot of noise in the archives,
I find that if some thought is put into the search phrase relevant posts
with good solutions can be found in under a couple of minutes.
I'd like to jump into this discussion, before it becomes an all out "flame-war"...
As a newbie to Linux and the Cobalt Raq3, I'd say that the list archives would be MUCH easier to search for someone such as myself IF everyone would properly TITLE their posts! When a subject begins to turn, often no one takes the time to alter the subject heading, such as: 

	Re: [cobalt-users] New topic (was Re: old discussion)
For instance, lately there was some good information about DNS and restarting Apache, but the original post was about "Subdomains" and how to create them. Since I save interesting or potentially relevant posts to my local drive, it makes it even hard to search THAT (about 150 messages) when the subject lines don't identify the content that has drifted so severely, in some cases.
FWIW, The list archives are hard to search because of this issue, IMO. : ) 



Patrick Beart
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
patrick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx       503-558-8322      Clackamas(Portland), OR
Web Architecture:   http://www.WebArchitecture.com
Intelligent Internet consulting, site development, and hosting solutions since 1994 

iWeb4Biz: Internet hosting for businesses   http://www.iWeb4Biz.com/
 -------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
cobalt-users mailing list
cobalt-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To Subscribe or Unsubscribe, please go to:
http://list.cobalt.com/mailman/listinfo/cobalt-users


--
--------------
|  Jerry Pape
|  jpape@xxxxxxxx
--------------