Re: [cobalt-users] Re: Cobalt Wish List If you must respond to this do it off the board!

[Kris Dahl <krislists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

on 5/18/00 4:50 PM, CobaltList at cobaltlist@xxxxxxxx wrote:

> Folks,
> 
> If you must respond to this do it off the board!

No way, man.  You can't make a post (essentially flaming some people), and
not expect a public response.  If you posted this in a public forum, you
should expect that it will be responded to publicly.

> I guess I'll defend myself a little...  In my experience with cobalt I have
> found that they don't provide any qualified Tech support.  I can't get the
> answers to questions specifically about things like "The GUI" and the SSL
> Package they sell and leave you hanging with.  Cobalt products are great
> appliances and I am very happy with it's performance.  To me the GUI is
> bonus that turned into a thorn due to lack of support and/or documentation.
> I have ask Tech support Simple questions about the GUI only to get stupid
> answers back.  I asked about a SSL Error and they said it was a bug and
> don't worry about that mail everyday???  Later they put a fix in the
> knowledge base but did they ever let me know???  NO... In Fact I never get
> any notices from them about Security or upgrades????  I have to go looking
> every once in a while...  It seems clear to me that if you ask a simple
> question you can expect a stupid answer..  Folks I'm not asking Linux or DNS
> or "Your cgi" questions here.  I just expect them to support the Software
> that they wrote/compiled/whatever and Sell.

A couple of things:

It has never been the responsibility of the vendor to notify you of security
updates and software updates.  I sure wish that Microsoft would email me
personally every time they found a bug in NT Server.  Very few (if any)
companies do this level of proactive notification.

Hewlett Packard does this for their drivers on NetServers, if you are part
of the proactive notification programs.

Asking that Cobalt notify every customer when they fix software is an
outright unrealistic expectation.  They do, however make announcements in
the cobalt-announce and cobalt-security lists.  If you want to be made aware
of these updates it is *your* responsibility to monitor these lists for
updates.  That is what they are there for.

This is also the sort of value that is added by purchasing from a VAR.  When
we worked on the servers we sold, we would apply the necessary security and
software updates.

> Finally in case none of you noticed ar perhaps you have all become used the
> comments you read here everyday!

I have never had a problem with Cobalt support.  Honestly I don't think that
there are many reasons to contact them.  Most problems can be solved by
RTFM, or the KB or the knowledge base.  And all but the most obscure
problems should be able to be solved by a competent Systems Engineer.

As far as documentation on the GUI, I found that when I was first getting
myself familiar with the Cobalt interface, the booklet provided what was
necessary to get started.

As far as documentation in general, the software that is running on the
Cobalt products is off the shelf and open-source.  The documentation for the
software on the Cobalt system is actually pretty damned good when you take
that into account.  If I have a problem with the mailing list software, I
don't look to Cobalt, I go to the majordomo support resources.

> -k  This is an appliance?  Do you have Advanced Knowledge of the GUI and all
> Aspects???  Didn't think so. :)

Heh.  My response would actually be more along the lines of:

Regardless of whatever Cobalt or another 'server appliance' company told
you, running a Server is not something to go into lightly.  Its not rocket
science, but if you are serious about it, you need to be serious on how you
approach the problem.  This means investing money, to make sure you are
getting the right equipment, and if need be hiring the right people to help
you run it.  It also means investing time to learn the required skills in
running internet services.  By hastily jumping into a industry, technology,
and service that you don't have (enough) experiences and expecting it all to
work is foolhardy. 

Regardless if someone tells me that (using an automotive analogy)  'doing a
electronic four wheel alignment is easy', I'm not going to go out and start
up my own suspension shop.  I am technically inclined, but don't have the
necessary experience to offer professional services to others in that field.
And if I did decide to start a shop, and bought the computer/peice of
equipment than does much of the work for you, I wouldn't start running it
myself and get upset I couldn't figure out how to set up a camber kit on 95
Civic.  And I certainly wouldn't join a 'Alignmaster 5000' mailinglist and
get irritated at the equipment.  It is your responsibility to be
knowledgeable about the industry.

Or a better anology would be a computer-controled piano company.  The piano
is preprogrammed to make a lot of great music.  And anyone can learn to play
it as well.  But to think that a beginner piano player will have the same
success and quality level of someone who has been playing for years is
downright foolish.

Obviously you didn't do your due diligence before purchasing this
equipment--another thing that buying from a VAR would help out with.  They
can tell you if your expectations are unreasonable, and help you pick (or
not pick) the right equipment for your needs.

The Cobalt machines are, in my opinion a great *tool* for offering internet
services.  It is not, however, a replacement for a qualified engineer.

Does anyone ever wonder why it is that a decent engineer makes the kind of
money they make?  Its because it takes a significant investment in time,
money, to become experienced.  And a Cobalt server is a great way to baby
start learning, (to quote JMZ, who was refereeing to open source, but I
think would be applicable here) but "is not magic pixie dust".

-k