Re: [cobalt-developers] [ISP Related] RadiusX for Cobalt RaQ2/3 Testing

[Greg Boehnlein <damin@xxxxxxxx>]

On Tue, 15 Feb 2000, Jeff Lasman wrote:

> At 07:19 PM 2/14/00 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >Jeff,
> >         You can bypass that and get RPMS already built. There are several
> >different RADIUS servers for linux that will build on the RAQ units. I've
> >done quite a few.
> 
> The advantage of what the consultant did was he gave us a complete install, 
> PHP, Radius, MySQL, running on the box.  He did all the work.  I think I'd 
> like seeing such an RPM, myself.

PHP Rpms 	- http://www.modssl.org/contrib/
MySQL Rpms 	- http://www.mysql.org/download_3.22.html
Radius		- http://www.freeradius.org/
Radius w/ MySQL + Web Front End	- ftp://ftp.cheapnet.net/pub/icradius/

And if you want to do E-commerce, just scrap the RedHat Apache RPMS and
grab the apache_modssl drop in replacements off of modssl.org's site.
There are what we use in production on boxes that need more specialized
applications than the Raq can provide.

As for the other stuff, I've used it on RedHat boxes as well as just about
every other Linux distro out there. It all works with a bit of tweaking.

> My statement about selling it for a good 
> deal less than $1500 was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.  I just wanted to 
> point out that having an "expert" install a complete open-source solution 
> seemed both cheaper and "better" than buying a retail solution.

You have to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. If you are
going to install Cistron, ICradius, or Livingston's Radius, you are
getting a bare bones radius server that you can extend if you want to.
None of these (except perhaps Cistron) come with the advanced features
that RadiusX (Or RadiusNT) from IEA-Software come with. Absolutely NONE of
them will interface with Microsoft SQL. While they may form one component
in a chain for your billing and authentication "system", they are
individual, seperate products that are not designed to work together. On
the other hand, RadiusX from IEA works with their complete ISP management
back-end, which works TRANSPARENTLY with Linux, SCO or just about anything
on the planet. I'm PARTICULARLY pleased to see that they are not
supporting the Cobalt RAQ products, as I have been beating on Dale Reed
(The Author of Emerald and RadiusNT) to port the backend to Linux for
nearly 3 years now.

> >         What is good about RadiusX is that is intergrates with the
> >Microsoft SQL billing backend that the Emerald billing software uses. This
> >is a VERY complete, VERY useful, and VERY well written accounting and
> >billing program. With LDAP intergration, it is possible to create an
> >account on the SQL server, have it replicated to an LDAP server and never
> >have to touch the Linux server to create it. Also, if the user does not
> >pay his bill, his account is shut off automatically.
> 
> Interesting point...
> 
> Last year I discussed this on one of the Internet lists.  We were 
> terminating people who were late.  Everyone came down against me.  It seems 
> that a large number of ISPs feel that one major difference between the "big 
> guy" ISPs and the little people like us is that we can be more flexible and 
> work with people on payments.  At the time we loosened up our late-payment 
> policies quite a bit.

On the other hand, we have made the transition from a small to a large ISP
and we can't afford to have people not paying for services they are using.
It took some training to get the customers used to the idea that if they
don't pay, they don't get access, but after a while you weed out the bad
seed and stick with the good. As a result, my cash flow is very steady,
and my receivables are extremely low.

The IEA Emerald billing manager has completely eliminated the need to keep
track of the intergration between Accounting, RADIUs Authentication and
UNIX account creation. If a customer is past-due, the RADIUS server knows
based on it's database backend that the customer should not be allowed
acccess to the network.

Intergrated CC billing, batch E-mailing of invoices and all the "goodies"
have virtually eliminated the need to have highly trained "technical"
staff doing the simple tasks of adding accounts. This can be handled by
the low end help-desk people. They add the account in Emerald, and with a
couple of clicks, the account is active and ready to go. The information
is replicated from MS-SQL to our LDAP servers, which allow our Linux boxes
to use NSS-Ldap for authentication purposes.

This is a HUGE win. If a server fails in production, all I need to do is
stick in a replacement w/ the same IP and point it's LDAP entry towards
the master server. BINGO. Instant replacement servr.
 
> I'm still in the throes of a startup, and my cash flow, while almost 
> adequate <smile> isn't always smooth.  So I enjoy a more flexible policy 
> myself <smile, again>.

In 1992, I started an ISP with 2 486 computers in my basement, running
SCO. No one knows more about cash flow and tight budgets than me. I've
hacked just about every piece of free software on the planet related to
the provision of ISP services. I assist in providing patches to the Linux
port of the Merit AAA Radius server. If it isn't out there, I find
something that fits closely and modify it. This is the beauty of Open
Source. This is the flexibility of OpenSource. This is what makes the fact
that Cobalt is basing their product on Linux such an enourmous gain for
people with the knowledge.

But there is a whole section of people out there that don't want, need or
have the time to hack the source themselves. They are called "end users"
and not "hackers". There are also us "hackers" that don't have the time to
modify every piece of software that comes along. If a commercial piece of
software does the job with minimal effort, it is worth the long term
savings in development and code maintenance.

> >I am greatly simplifying it, but for users of the Emerald billing package,
> >having RadiusX available to run on the Linux platform instead of IEA's
> >RadiusNT on NT removes one more dependence on a Microsoft product.
> 
> Obviously it works for you.  But... while you're saying that using RadiusX 
> with Emerald removes a dependency on a Microsoft product, it seems to me 
> that depending on another package rather than Emerald could remove your 
> dependencies even further <grin>.
>
> Of course you've decided to go with Emerald, and obviously, for you, that's 
> fine.  And you've decided to go with RadiusX.  For you, again, that's fine.

After 4 years of using Free Radius servers, running an accounting system
on QuickBooks for some 5,000 users, my decision is based on experience.
Something that you admit to having very little of based on the comments
that you hired a consultant to setup RADIUS and you are in "startup mode".
You might well take the advice that others have "been there, done that,
moved on" and consider it for the future of your business.

> Me, I'm a tool user.  So far I've found open-source tools to be superior in 
> terms of my needs.  Your mileage, of course, may very well vary.

RadiusX is based on Livingston's RADIUS source code. But it has been
highly modified to fit the commercial needs of high volume ISP providers.
Ergo, the up-front cost of the product is balanced by the savings in
development and code maintenance. If you were to hack all the good stuff
that RadiusX has into Cistron, or Livingston's radius, you would have at
LEAST a 6 month development and testing cycle before you got the first
working alpha out the door.

I am all for free software. I provide solutions to my customers every day
based on free software. Indeed, a large portion of my revenue is generated
by LINUX related consulting work. In return, I give back plenty to the
Linux community. But I also realize from a business perspective that the
strength of Free Software lies in it's ability to intergrate -WITH- other
programs, wether they are free OR commercial. You choose the piece of
software for the job based on the needs that you have and the criteria
that you set. Dismissing one, or the other limits your choices. I'm about
choice.. choosing wether to use free software or not.. wether to develop
free software or not..

--
      President of New Age Consulting Service, Inc.  Cleveland Ohio
           http://www.nacs.net   info@xxxxxxxx   (216)-619-2000
         An athletic supporter of the Cleveland Linux User Group
                        http://cleveland.lug.net