Re: [cobalt-users] Need advice on Colocating or Self Location

[Grant Stern <grantstern@xxxxxxx>]

>> So you wanna colo at home . . . .
>> Come to Miami!  We have a nice new nap here, and the colo prices have been
>> dropping.  Telco prices are dropping and the land near our nap is still
>> cheap, you could get a 10k sq facility that needs a tech-makeover for 3-5k a
>> month for purchase.

>I'm not sure I understand.  Most of us don't want to live in a 10,000
>sq. ft. colo center, even if we do get highspeed access as a perk.

No, living in a 10k sq. ft. co-lo center is not the deal, unless you like
things really cold and windowless at home.  However, if you are doing more
than hosting, such as print design, photography, commercial printing, tv
production, or just have physical product to sell, having a physical space
that supports these activities leaves tons of room for a data cabinet or
room.  I work with an MRI center owner, just got a T1 in his office (3000
storefront space in West Palm Beach), as case in point.  He has a nice cold,
dark closet next to the monster sized dino machines that power his equipment
(12" floppy anyone) that will hold a raq full of raqs next month.  10k
warehouses run 5000 a month to purchase.  I'm working on getting one, ok,
let you know how it turns out.

>And even if I had millions of dollars to invest, I sure wouldn't do it
>in a new hosting center; there are too many empty colocation centers
>around, too many empty buildings around that either used to house
>colocation centers or were built to be colocation centers.

I agree.  But if you want space, more is better, the small spaces are twice
as expensive, and I see potential in purchase more than rental for
buildings.

>> I'm a web designer more than an internet host (at least earning more from
>> the former than the latter).  However, I took a shot at home hosting, to be
>> foiled by a partner's greed.  What I learned though is,
>> 
>> Downtown Miami is an ideal place to start a hosting company.
>> 

>You'd be surprised; a lot of downtowns are dirt cheap.  Because of all
>the empty buildings and companies leaving them.

Sure, a lot of downtowns are cheap, but most of them don't have a nice new
nap and zero loop prices on T lines.  Furthermore, downtown Miami (I'm
speaking of the north side) is in the beginning stage of five years worth of
renovations.  New arts center is coming, and even the nightlife is starting
again on these old city streets, which is telling in this town.

>> and zero loop=speed at low cost (ie. T1 for 700 a month and at blazing low
>> latency).

>Again, true in a lot of downtowns.  I don't remember the financial
>details but we had several buildings in downtown Los Angeles (where we
>managed to lose millions of dollars in the blue-jean business not that
>many years ago), for all the same reasons.

My adsl loves downtown, and so do I.

>> You can buy a cabinet at the Miami Nap for an incredibly reasonable amount.
>> I'm talking about the real NAP too, not the Terramark hosting center that
>> everyone talks about down the road, but the actual POP for all the big boys.
>> However, the price on both is reasonable, and at Terramark's "nap" is
>> getting cheaper by the day (though they are struggling having opened in june
>> 2001, but just got more financing yesterday), I had an isp offer me co-lo at
>> the nap for 1300 a month, but I forgot at this point weather it was for a
>> box or a cabinet of my own.

>Do you think that most of us with one or two RaQs should be buying
>(renting actually) cabinets?

No, probably not, but, maybe some of us want to sell raq hosting space for
225 a month like my buddies at unowho.net do.  If you can sell 10 of em to
companies (local cpa/attorney maybe?) then a cabinet would be nice.

>That turns you from a designer/hoster to a colocation company.  It's not
>a step to be taken lightly; I studied it for about three years before I
>did it, and I've been in the hosting business since 1994 (Clascom was
>one of the earliest hosting companies, back when we offered 10 meg sites
>for us$30/month and the address was
>"http://www.clascom.net/~yoursite";).  I began RaQ consulting three years
>ago, and I've only been selling colocation for about three months.

Granted (pardon the pun), but once you have one raq running, the others are
easier to figure out.  And once you have a connection, unless you're
planning to host major multinational sites, you can put quite a few boxes
online.  I'm studying the benefits of whipping up an office communication
ASProvider with my local network and php gods.  As luck would have it, I'm a
far better designer than they are, so they want me on the project.

Ok, so I haven't been in the hosting business that long, but I did sign up
for yahoo, using LYNX in 1995.  I started using next machines back then too,
back when I was excited to get spammed!


>> But, there are opportunities to buy here as well.  For those who don't know
>> (I assume most folks on the list), there is a nasty neighborhood attached to
>> downtown Miami that is being rebuilt at the moment.

>I grew up in Miami (NY expatriats).  My family owned Wolfies (there's
>only one left, 21st & Collins, MB; we sold out years ago).  Graduated
>Miami Norland '62; this past fall went to our 39th reuinion.  Miami's
>downtown has gone up and down for years, but sadly it's suburbs have
>gotten so bad that now the entire family still in So. Florida is living
>in Ft. Lauderdale or even further north and west.

Ahhhh, you speak of the 'burbs in the north of the city.  The south is
paradise!  The burbs in the south are overcrowded when you get too far west,
but the stuff close to US1 is very nice, and the nicer neighborhoods are all
incorporated or close to it.  Just don't drive too fast and its a great
place to live (been there, done that, bought the speeding ticket from an
overpoliced municipality).

>I went back to Florida in '94 for a while, but was back in Riverside by
>'97.  Is it time to go back again <smile>?

Could be . . .  Just stay downtown or south of the city proper.

>> Have you called them and asked how much an install is?  When I asked, it was
>> only 1400 for install, and then monthly fees.  Of course I was at zero loop,
>> so the install didn't have to go to far.

>I don't know how you or they measure zero-loop for fiber, but it
>shouldn't be too expensive; their pipe runs not fifty feet from our
>front gate.

I was in the same boat, with a fiber cable behind the building.  They said
the install cost was unimproved by our proximity to fiber, they have to pay
for your circuit, or something. . .  Its been a while since I spoke with
them.

>> Yup. Or find a commercial cable provider.  I just spoke with cogent, and its
>> 3000 a month if you're a service provider (host, asp, etc.) only 1000 for
>> end users (offices, wan).  They do things like list jacksonville as a
>> serviced city, but only service one building there.  They do service the
>> Miami NAP though, so you'd be paying around 5500 for co-lo and bandwidth
>> here, until cogent bites it.

>Why in the world would anyone pay $5,500/month for colo and Cogent
>bandwidth in Miami when I can get it in downtown Los Angeles, total
>$2,000/month.  One rack, 100 mbps.  Cogent.  Priced and verified.  Of
>course I won't touch Cogent.

Who knows?  I didn't because it was overpriced.  This town didn't feel a
recession until after 9-11.  I live across the street from the OMNI mall,
which they successfully converted into a million sq. ft. colo center
essentially.  That is successfully wired the place and had such a high ask
price (20k/mo. Rent + depending on build out and that was their smallest
offered space), that they were unsuccessful in one small thing!  They did
not sign a single lease. . . .

Cogent did tell me on the phone today that they charge triple that amount
for service providers.  And I wouldn't touch them either.  After hearing
about what they do now, and how much build out they plan, I feel sorry for
them.  Right idea, little too late.

>> Good luck and pipe dreams,

>pipe dreams?  Again, what in the world are you talking/writing about?

I don't know 'bout you, but I just want a big, fat, data pipe.  Just ordered
the OC-48 for my closet at home. Ok, just a dream.

grant

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