Re: [cobalt-users] Wish List...

["Robert G. Fisher" <rfisher@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 10:11:15AM -0700, Kris Dahl wrote:
> I think I, too, asked the question of why they went with Interbase--by all
> the accounts I have found it is inferior to MySQL and PostgreSQL.  Support
> is lacking as well.

Never worked with InterBase, so can't say anything.  Just thought 
it would be good to complement the database development web tools 
with a GUI interface for a person to create, alter, and drop both
databases and tables.

You don't have to be a SQL expert or master DBA to use MS Access
or MS Works Database for example, in fact, if you are one of the
above -- you're probably having convulsions from the mere mention
of these products <grin>.  The Cobalt line is not marketed or
inteneded for such power users though, it's meant for the average
joe who wants to run a web site or several web sites quick and
easily.

> With MyODBC you can use any ODBC compliant client to access MySQL at least.
> PostgreSQL has similar capabilities, I believe.  So they can use Access or
> whatever.  I have a unique experience in that I learned SQL command line
> before I learned any other database.  I tried to use Access a couple months
> back--that was a real bass ackwards application.  I utterly hated the GUI,
> as it overcomplicated everything.  Anyway, my point is that sometimes it
> important for the user to learn how to set something up on their own rather
> than have a 'turn-key' solution.

I generally do not prefer a GUI with the exception of a few
applications, generally word processors or something that will
list a table of results -- reading a table in a scrollable grid
is rather nice after all.

Although as for the comment of ODBC, you can use MyODBC or the
PostgreSQL odbc drivers to access a particular database from a
client -- but this assumes you understand how to create the
database, the database user, and setup the access configurations
for that database.  Since this requires enough intelligence to
RTFM, you shouldn't expect it from a PHB<grin>.  

While I agree that you SHOULD understand SQL and RDBMs before
trying to design a database, I don't think it's a bad thing
to allow for creation of a database via a GUI.  

I have plenty of Access mdb files in use on various web 
sites (note, this was not my choice but either a 3rd party 
software app or the customer's choice and design).  There
exist lots of people who feel comfortable putting together
a simple database with MS Access and using FrontPage to
build the simple SELECT queries that fuel their ASP.  

I simply think that by integrating a good GUI for database
design, that it may be easier to overcome the resistance
some people have to switching from what they know about 
Access to a real RDBMs like PostgreSQL.  I know this is
the biggest holdout for one customer who has a multitude
of sites who while is not a technical genius, is intelligent
enough to handle the RaQ's interface but losing the ability
to work on local databases that can be administered EASILY
through a GUI (easy for him anyway)...is the only remaining
barrier and in this case, it's a comfort barrier.

> Then someone buys it, trys it and comes on this list saying
> its a POS because they can't figure out DNS.

I dunno, I'm kinda at that point where I chuckle and maybe pull
out a RTFM...Seek the Grasshopper book reference.

> I guess I am saying that I think a barrier of entry can be a 
> good thing sometimes.

Problem is, that in a lot of cases, the people who understand
the technology are not the people who will control how that
technology is applied in the workplace.  If it were, comics
like Dilbert would not ring true in the hearts of so many..

-- 
Robert G. Fisher		     NEOCOM Microspecialists Inc. 
System Administrator/Programmer      (540) 666-9533 x 116