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RE: [cobalt-users] Mail with Subdomain.domain

At 09:26 AM 3/15/00 +0000, you wrote:


Hi Jeff & co.,

I have a query regarding your setup here ...... see below for more......

> -----Original Message-----
Please don't quote entire original messages and then reply at the bottom (except when the original message is only a few lines long and you're answering the whole thing. Please don't reply at the top and then quote entire original messages (except when obviously indicated). Please don't quote the headers, unless the purpose of your post is to get help with them. 

That said, I'll reply...


> From: cobalt-users-admin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:cobalt-users-admin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jeff Lasman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 4:38 AM
> To: cobalt-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [cobalt-users] Mail with Subdomain.domain
>
>
> At 07:58 PM 3/14/00 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >I am still having complications getting the subdomain mail to
> work properly.


>...<much snipped out of the middle to save space and bandwidth>...


> domain:      nobaloney.net   jeff.nobaloney.net  mike.nobaloney.net
> IP#:         209.126.157.68  209.126.157.77      209.126.157.77
> hostname:    www             www                 www
> domain name: nobaloney.net   jeff.nobaloney.net  mike.nobaloney.net
> accept mail: checked         checked             checked

I notice here that you put www as the host name rather than jeff or mike -
is this the correct way? I am sure it must be, but I thought that the prefix
was the hostname, or am I wrong?
If you put in "jeff" as the host and not as the domain name, then the domain name is still <nobaloney.net> and you CANNOT accept mail again for nobaloney.net as you've already figured out.
If you put "jeff.nobaloney.net" as the domain name, then "jeff.nobaloney.net" IS a completely different domain than "nobaloney.net" and you can accept mail for it.
In these examples, "nobaloney.net" is a second level domain name. "jeff.nobaloney.net" is a third level domain name. (In fact, "net" is a top, or first, level domain name.)
The only majord difference to the Internet is that you can't lookup domains of third level or higher in whois. But you can certainly maintain them as independent domains, and your RaQ understands this. 


If you set it up as you have done above can you access the sites in a
browser as jeff.nobaloney.net or www.jeff.nobaloney.net?


Yes.


Have you ticked the box accept web access by domain?


Yes.


I have a RaQ3 - not sure if that makes a difference,
Shouldn't make a difference, though I've not tested. It's standard Internet behavior and Cobalt, and the RaQs, understand it well. 


and I also notice that
you have used the same IP for the sub domains but not for the main site - is
there a reason for this, I ask as I am struggling to set up sub domains
myself.


Nope.  Just did it to show you it didn't matter.


I put

domain:                 cifc.org.uk             chat.cifc.org.uk
IP#                             216.167.66.219  216.167.66.219
Hostname                        www                     chat
domain name:            cifc.org.uk             cifc.org.uk
accept mail by domain not ticked not ticked (it says another site is using 
this)
access by domain not ticked not ticked ( --- 
----            )

When I set this up, I have asked my ISP who looks after the DNS config to
assign the IP to the new site of chat.cifc.org.uk - when he did that if I
entered chat.cifc.org.uk I was met by a page not found error, but if I
entered www.chat.cifc.org.uk I was taken straight to the www.cifc.org.uk,
and it bypassed the index.html page that was set up for it.
Try it my way. And send me a copy of the zone-file for civc.org.uk so I can see what changes, if any, need to be made. (I'll be happy to consult with your ISP for money, but for you I'll look at it onlist for free <smile>.) If you don't know how to get your zone file, ask your ISP for a copy. If your ISP doesn't know how to get a zone file, choose someone else to handle your DNS <wry grin>. 

And note the differences concerning domain name levels:

first (top) level domain name:  uk
second level domain name     :  org
third level domain name      :  civc
host                         :  www
fourth level domain name     :  chat
host                         :  www
You've done something quite ambiguous. You've told your RaQ that "chat" is a host name, yet you've probably told DNS (I need to see the zone file to be sure) that "chat" is a subdomain, part of the domain "chat.cifc.org.uk". Certainly you've told your browser that "chat" is a subdomain; it can't be a host, because a host is a service, and it can't possibly host a lower service. ("www" can't be under "chat" if "chat" is a host, so "chat" must be a subdomain.
The real problem here is how domain names are laid out; it's hard for the uninformed and the beginner to understand how to tell if something is a domain name or a host. 

So you're confusing your system <smile>.


I need the ability to set up subdomains without the 'www' bit,
That's a limitation of the Cobalt interface. In this case, "www" is a host, or more resonably a "service". Are you hosting websites? Then you can reasonably use a "www" service name. Your customers can still type in "chat.cifc.org.uk" into their browser without the "www"; and the system should still display the proper page (once you've set this up the way i've demonstrated). The browser WILL rename the page to show "www.chat.cifc.org.uk", so if that behavior isn't acceptable, you need to make some manual changes to the /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf file. You can find out how to do it by looking in the archives, where I've previously documented it, or you can risk the ire of me and everyone else on the list <smile>, by asking me to repeat it <wry grin>. 


although my
ISP calls these machine names - which is confusing me (not hard!)
Left over from the old days, back when men were men and sheep were <smile> mutton. A machine only ran one service, had one name, and one IP#. Old habits die hard. But they're more typically called "services". The word "host" that cobalt uses, is just another variation of machine name, though they'll probably argue that since the software service is "hosting" web-serving, that "host" can reply to both <smile>. Splitting hairs is what I'd call it; personally I'd rather split hares; they're tastier than mutton (though perhaps not in your opinion <smile>). 


Ideally I
would like to avoid the expense of a new IP for each subdomain.
Nothing to do with it. The only reason you'd need a separate IP# would be if you wanted to host a secure site with separate names, or if you wanted to host anonymous ftp. 


(all this because it is not possible to have subwebs on a Cobalt RaQ3!)


I'm not sure of your definiton of a subweb.  Explain what you mean if you wish.


Any idea how I can take this forward?
Yep. Follow my suggestions and let me know what your next hanging point is <smile>. 

Or hire me, and I'll do it for you <smile, again>.

Jeff

--
Jeff Lasman <jblists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>