Re: [cobalt-developers] Majordomo & capacity

["Steve Werby" <steve-lists@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Jeff Lasman" <jblists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Steve Werby wrote:
> > If this isn't Cobalt specific and of interest to other Cobalt users I
don't
> > know what is.  I have to assume the original poster is planning on
hosting
> > the list on a Cobalt server and not enough information has been shared
to
> > rule out Majordomo or another MLM installed on a Cobalt server.
>
> Based on experiences with about 10,000 address on a RaQ3 a few years
> ago, and the sendmail continually shutting down, personally, I'd say it
> is.

Hi Jeff.  Like we've both mentioned, there are things that can be done to
greatly improve the performance of Majordomo running on a RaQ.

> However, we can leave it hear and let it play out.  I was simply
> going to recommend a listmanager designed for large lists,

Notice that I said "or another MLM".

> but I was
> going to recommend it offlist and recommend that it NOT be run on a RaQ,
> since previous people who've tried it on RaQs have had problems with it;
> I just didn't want to start another war over it on this list.

Why not on-list then?  I think your MLM recommendation could benefit others
on this list.  If we used others' failure to get something running on a
Cobalt or the fact that the Cobalt is slower than many other systems as
justification to go with other systems I think it's safe to assume no one
would be running Cobalt servers.  <g>

> > I don't quite agree.  I agree that more RAM and a faster processor will
> > help, but there is software that can be installed and optimized on
Cobalt
> > servers that will perform much better than Majordomo by itself on a
virgin
> > RaQ.  A lot depends on the list (monthly broadcast or high volume
> > discussion?  all users within the same company or 100,000 different
domains?
> > etc...).  And of course, it depends on what else the box is being used
for
> > too.
>
> Even if it's an announcement list, since no one's going to host 100,000
> addresses on a Raq the number of users that are going to be off the box
> is still substantial.

True, but other than that we can only speculate about the user base for the
list.  It could be 100k users across 80k domains or it could be 100k users
across 5k domains.  Even though one scenario is more likely than the other
(at least without more info. from the original poster), I think you'll agree
that the latter scenario will cause less problems than the former and with
the right MLM, Majordomo in conjunction with one of several programs and/or
MTA changes a list hosted on a Cobalt will see a very big performance
improvement over the stock Majordomo on a virgin Cobalt.

> With 100,000 addresses, even with good
> management, there's going to be a lot of bounces.

That's a different issue all together.  And there are numerous
solutions...and the original poster never asked about bounces.

> Imho, it's NOT a job
> for the RaQ's implementation of sendmail.  Either the RaQ is going to be
> set up to run another MTA in addition to or instead of (much harder)
> sendmail, or the poster is going to end up with a specialized system.

Those are alternatives, but they aren't the only alternatives.  I suppose
I'm not as quick to rule things out without knowing more details about the
original poster's list, needs and constraints.  Your solution (whatever it
might be since you haven't shared it) might be the way to go, but then again
it might not be an option for the original poster.

> It's okay to disagree with me, but from our actual experience, I'll
> stick by my original statement.

And I'll stick with mine.  To refresh your memory, I never stated one
alternative was right or another was wrong; I just stated I didn't feel we
had the info. necessary to settle on a solution and I though there was value
to keeping this thread going *on-list*.  I think you've either taken my
statements out of context or you need to read them more closely.  In any
case, I realize this reply has taken too much of my time and probably has
provided little value to the original poster so I will limit further
participation in this thread to advice that will help the original poster or
others with similar needs.

> And I'll refer any disagreements to the majordomo list at greatcircle.com.
>
> There's a lot of good experience there.

In the spirit of this now_very_off_topic message I agree 100%, but add that
while there are some sharp regular contributors to that list, those same
people have very little experience with Majordomo or other MLMs on Cobalt
servers.  And IMO cobalt-developers is a good forum for getting advice on
solutions to deliver high volume mail on a Cobalt server.

--
Steve Werby
President, Befriend Internet Services LLC
http://www.befriend.com/