Re: [cobalt-users] meta-verify -f messed up GUI

[Jeff Lasman <jblists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Julius wrote:

> I think you misunderstood the problem at hand;
> They are already there, all of them, none have disappeared.

What you see in the gui depends on what's there; if the gui isn't
working it's a good bet that something in the ".cobalt" web path is
broken (sorry, I said .admserv" last time because I wasn't looking; now
I am).

> I already successfully added aliases by editing the virtusertable,
> creating the .db out of it, and running meta-verify afterwards
> to enter them in other databases.

But you're NOT updating the .html that calls the gui.  There's even a
thread on that in the archives; I know, I had the same problem you're
having now.  The thread may not be on this list, though; it could be on
cobalt-developers, where I suggested earlier you might get some better
help.

> The problem isn't related to what the GUI calls,
> it's what the GUI shows and reads. Currently it does not
> show any site at all, and like I wrote; everything is
> functioning normally, except for the admin-GUI.

But that's what you want to fix, right?  In your first post you wrote
and asked how to add users with the useradd command line tool; I
explained why I didn't think that was a good idea.  Now you're ignoring
the possibility of adding new users; I guess you don't need them
anymore.

> > It may seem simpler now to leave the gui entirely, but ...
> >
> >> I read the man useradd, but the
> >> cobalt user-base is quite weird, what list of commands are
> >> needed to add a user the right way?
> >> I need example commandlines (sorry, the man pages are too
> >> complex).
> >
> > ... if the man pages are too complex then you need the comfort
> > level of the gui.
> 
> Nonsense. The commandline is faster and much more reliable
> than any GUI for any server operation would ever be.
> This has nothing to do with how complex man pages are.

You said the man pages are complex, I didn't.  If they're too complex
for you, how can you be sure the command line is either faster or more
reliable?

Sorry, I can't help you if I don't know what you want to do.

> The ones on this subject are way too complex for the tasks
> at hand, because one never needs to learn or know or even
> understand what group or ID a user needs to have on a Cobalt;

But you said you didn't want to use the Cobalt gui, that you wanted to
maintain the box manually.

> I only need to add one the cobalt-default way,
> and the man pages give us way too many options
> it expects me to set and know how to set
> out of the blue; That's stupid and insane.

That's linux documentation.  First it was complex.  Now it's stupid and
insane.  And yet you're convinced you want to manage your box as a linux
box.  Or at least that's what your first email said.

> I can have macros or use pre-saved commands
> to perform such tasks using the commandline.
> I don't need to know any of those settings,
> I only need to have an example commandline,
> any user can be added accordingly.
> The man pages lack those (really silly
> of those writing them, if you ask me).

The beauty of open-source is that you're welcome to rewrite anything you
don't like.  Can we expect you to bring out a new set of man-pages,
then?

> > Believe me, using useradd to create a user is a
> > lot easier than all the other things you have to do to administer
> > a linux box without a gui interface.
> 
> At least the manuals are better written in most other cases.
> I have never had one problem installing users on BSD servers,
> yet the weirdo config of RaQs do not have much logic
> in my opinion. And then again:
> Why does one need to study an entire Sun Cobalt
> OS config only to add a user or alias?

You don't.  But if you're not going to do it the Cobalt way then you
certainly have to understand the unix tools; they're explained in the
man pages.

> > Perhaps someone will answer with more details on what may be wrong
> > and how to fix it, but again, if the man pages are too complex I
> > question your ability to make the decisions you need to make as
> > you work to restore the RaQ.
> 
> Blah blah blah. Useless stories.

I'm sorry you're disappointed in my advice on what to do if you really
want to ignore the gui interface.  So now my best advice would be to
reinstall the gui interface.

> I have it all backupped, but I'm not convinced it's
> easier to do a recovery of all data. It's not needed at all
> (everything is fully functional), and if I don't solve this
> chances are really extremely high the same issue will
> re-appear after the restore.

The "everything is fully functional" line is just not true.  The gui is
NOT fully functional, and that's what insulates you from having to learn
those complex, stupid, and insane man pages.

I don't know why your gui interface broke, so I can't guarantee it won't
happen again.  Nevertheless, the first step, imho, is to fix it.

Or learn how to manage the box without it.

Go to the nearest bookstore, and buy a book on Linux administration,
preferably one based on Red Hat Linux 6.2.  Buy the Linux Documentation
Project book; someone's published it; it's 1,000 pages or so and costs
$20; it's a good investment.  And learn how to pretend the box wasn't
supposed to have a gui.

Or fix it.  it's up to you.

> Didn't fix it, in fact: using meta-verify was exactly
> what messed it up in the first place, as far as I can tell.

If the database matches the state of the Raq, then meta-verify doesn't
do anything.  So there must have been some kind of problem.

> I disagree with that. If one needs to 'learn' how to 'follow'
> man pages, they have been written badly, and indeed;
> I think in this case they are. man useradd is total chaos.

Back about three years ago I studied man useradd, and used the
information I gained to write my own "adduser" script which fit my needs
perfectly.  While it probably won't fit yours (I wrote it for a
"straight" linux box, a years-old slackware linux as I recall) if you
can study it and understand it (it's fairly well documented) it might
help you write one that will.  You can download it, if you'd like, via
anonymous ftp, from ftp.nobaloney.net.

> Well then, what are those startup files on a RaQ4i ?

See, Julius, you don't want to learn anything, yet you want to be a
Linux admin.

I went to google, and searched for "red hat linux startup commands".

The second hit was: "Red Hat Linux 6 Basic Commands & Startup Files"  It
leads to a video-tutor course you can buy ($89.95).  Since you're having
problems with the man pages, I suppose that'd be a reasonable option for
you.

> For example, in most cases you will not even know that
> [-p password] needs to be -p password in a commandline,
> one would assume the [ ] need to be there as well.

If you don't understand common syntax used in the computer world, then
you're right, and then I'd recommend "Linux for Dummies".  Just to head
off your rant that you're not a dummy, may I point out that I own a lot
of "Dummies" books; that they start at the beginning, and that's
obviously where you want and need to start.

> It is full of unexplained, uncertain and error-
> sensitive command-desriptions like that.
> It has nothing to do with a 'learning process',
> if anything the writers (like you) need to learn
> how to write them.

I don't recall telling you I'm a writer; perhaps you read it in one of
my earlier posts.

> > Any good linux administration handbook or the Linux Documentation
> > Project will help you figure out which man pages to read.
> 
> One does not have to read anything at all
> if the commands would have had any logic to them.

But they don't <smile>.  So read the manuals, study them, learn them, or
leave everything to the Cobalt gui, hire a consultant or an admin (no
not me, I couldn't get along with you long enough to even start the job
no less perform it), or sell the RaQ on eBay so someone who appreciates
it can make some good out of it.

And the next time you write, how about telling us what you want,
specifically, so we can give you an answer you can use.

Thanks.

Jeff
-- 
Jeff Lasman <jblists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Linux and Cobalt/Sun/RaQ Consulting
nobaloney.net
P. O. Box 52672, Riverside, CA  92517
voice: (909) 778-9980  *  fax: (702) 548-9484