RE: [cobalt-users] Cobalt GUI & Webmin [Long]

["Colin J. Raven" <cjraven@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

> Webmin is an excellent tool, I've always found it complements the GUI,
> there's no reason to dump one in favour of the other, both have their
> obvious strengths.

I can see how one **could** compliment the other yes, but there are
drawbacks to that approach IMO. The main drawback is functionality....or
perhaps better expressed as "usability" and some of that you address in
your comments below. I think this is the core of the problem:

> Leave adding sites, users and DNS to the
> GUI, that will avoid clashes - but there's other useful tools webmin
has
> like the file manager, tools for viewing email boxes and log files,
installing perl
> modules from CPAN, etc, that still make it worth using -

OK but what you are really saying in effect is this;
Use Cobalt's GUI but don't use module [x] module [y] module [z]
Use webmin...but wait er, lemme see if I can remember...oh yes, don't
use module [a] ('cos that's done by the Cobalt GUI) and oh...don't use
module [b] (same reason) or module [c] (another Cobalt GUI reserved
task)

The crux of this is that it almost becomes a choice of one OR the other
because making a decision on using only defined functions from each
becomes (again IMO) a kludge.
Now I didn't start out by trying to make this distinction, in fact the
caveat was that I wasn't evangelizing one or the other. However I saw
the possibinity of blurring lines of functionality, and wondered aloud
about how easy (or feasible OR possible) it is to kill the Cobalt GUI
altogether and stick webmin in there...which like its interface or not
is a more powerful tool. I do NOT know whether it handles virtual sites
as well as the Cobalt RAQ GUI.

> notwithstanding the standard disclaimer that stuff like this may void
the
> warranty.
Donna, in any realistic sense, the moment you plug the box in and,
(knowing  what the real-world requirements of running a Linux
web/mail/DNS server) you know you need the CLI...and hehe...the moment
you do anything under the hood, poof! you've "voided the warranty".
I don't want to get into that too much, since there are
appliance-marketing iussues in there. Personally, as long as Cobalt
steps up and warranties the hardware, beyond that IMO, the box owner to
a point *should* be on their own. The Cobalt GUI is already such a flaky
beast that "warranty" is somewhat a moot point. I'm no lawyer, but
that's my front stoop kick-back opinion.

> Just because webmin makes some things easier, I don't necessarily
think
> it's a tool for the faint hearted - if you're not sure what you're
doing with
> it, you may drop yourself in a big hole.

You said it well, although from a different perspective than my own.
Running an Internet connected box is not for the faint hearted. Having
responsibility for customer's websites, email et al is also not for the
faint-hearted. It's a question of perspective. Compared to the trust and
expectations customers have in and of their webhost, the issue of
running a GUI...and which one...is a lesser issue. Get a trial box up
and mess with the app-du-jour until you know you can install the beastie
on a production box and run it in a stable and bugless manner.

I know how to install and run webmin, it's not that hard. If you
understand the underlying issues behind each module, you're just seeing
the information displayed in a different format, that's all. There are
tradeoffs not seen by all however. For example, Just because you perform
graphically-driven administration of a mailserver doesn't absolve you
from the responsibility of understanding sendmail. I think that's
perhaps what you meant Donna, when you referred to dropping oneself in a
big hole. Please correct me if I misunderstood your point.

I was trying to avoid the (perhaps inevitable) philosphical discussion
in the orginal post, but alas it may happen anyway. For the record my
one question remains unanswered...how the hell do you kill the Cobalt
GUI completely anyway?

Sorry this got "Long" <sigh> I'd hoped to avoid it, but I guess it has
to happen anyway...but at least it beats flames and noisy bar-fights.
Regards,
-Colin
--
Colin J. Raven