Re: [cobalt-users] The new $995 Sun UNIX(r)/RISC King of the road ! -Don't believe the F.U.D.!

[Jeff Lasman <jblists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Brandon Wheaton wrote:

> Though the OS itself isn't Open Source, there are a wealth of
> OS/GNU tools at everyone's disposal. Here is a small sample of
> what free and Open Source tools are available for Solaris:
> 
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/packages/solaris/sparc/
> 
> They even give instructions on how to create your own Solaris
> packages, as with Cobalt,
> 
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/packages/solaris/sparc/html/creating.solaris.pack
> ages.html
> 
> For any StarOffice users, it's Open Source as well.
> http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2000-07/sunflash.20000719.1.html
> 
> I think you will be pleasantly surprised at what you will find if you do
> a search of "open source" on the Sun website.

I still maintain that it's not for most of us on this list.

> > It doesn't have a built-in gui, so initial setup is best
> > left to experienced administrators, and you can't give your
> > users any self-administration through gui features unless
> > you implement another solution.
> >
> 
> One word - WebMin -  http://www.webmin.com/webmin/ (Gee, that's Open Source,
> too)

Webmin is NOT at the ease-of-use level of the Cobalt gui for people with
little or no linux clue.  And was never meant to be.  Just another
reason for me to maintain that it's NOT for most of us on this list.

> > It also needs you to create a special cat-5 cable (none is included)
> > to connect your terminal before you can even configure it.
> 
> Please read the Documentation before making such statements, Jeff.

I got the information from a long study of their website.  I'm glad you
found additional documentation; the website made it clear that a cable
was required.  As I recall, in those words... something like "you'll
need a cable".

> You can also use a normal and perfectly available Cisco console cable
> for the connection as well.

And how are most of us who use Cobalt RaQs supposed to know that?  This
box is NOT for unix/linux newbies, as is the Cobalt RaQ.  I'm NOT
spreading FUD; I'm giving my honestly felt opinion based on real study
of the website, from my own experience level (which is extensive but
quite lacking in Sun experience).

> Also read the sections entitled:
> 
> Connecting the cables
>         Setting up a serial connection
> 
> Connection and configuration via terminal emulator is a lot more
> simple than you would have people think. Configuring Solaris 2.7
> on a Netra (t105, X1) via a serial connection and terminal emulator
> (HyperTerminal, SecureCRT) is faster and simpler than a RedHat Linux
> installation.

I'm not going to make that analysis.  But it's certainly several levels
more complex than plugging in your RaQ3i, which is what I'm maintaining.

> > Don't get me wrong, it's a really awesome system, and an
> > extremely good value.  It's just NOT for the majority of
> > us Cobalt users.
> 
> Jeff, why not encourage others to try new hardware platforms and
> O/Ses for themselves instead of implying that "us Cobalt users"
> aren't smart enough to set up and administer our own Solaris
> based servers.

This Sun Solaris based server is NOT designed for beginners, as is the
Cobalt line.  Sun bought Cobalt to fill in a perceived void in their
line.  The two servers are NOT designed for the same market.  If this is
a great server for you, so be it.

I suppose you're at direct odds with Zeffie then, he wrote that I only
want to sell my services, and here I am telling people that if they buy
the Sun they'll very likely need someone's services.

I don't have to worry about all the Unix experts on this list; they
already know if they can, will, and want to, run the Sun box.  It's the
relative newcomers to hosting, who are stretching to manage their Cobalt
boxes, that need the advice.  And I believe I'm giving good advice for
them.  I don't think you'll change my mind, so I hope we can agree to
disagree.

> Smells like F.U.D. to me. At 1/3 the cost of a RaQ3/4,
> people will begin to realize soon enough that migrating to the Netra
> X1 it is well worth the time and effort of learning real UNIX
> administration and take off the Cobalt training wheels once and for
> all.

Depends.  If you're new to linux/unix, and need a system on which to
start hosting tomorrow with no effort, and no administration, then
you're best served with the Cobalt line.  If you're linux/unix
experienced, know the differences between Solaris and linux, and are
willing to take the time and energy (mostly time) to learn to use the
Solaris, or already know it, then the Sun may be a fine system for you.

ISPs who want to offer the Cobalt siteadmin-level gui will continue to
buy RaQs; ISPs who want to roll their own, or who can install and use
either Webmin or Plesk, or some other solution, may decide to buy the
Sun.

But I believe that to say beginners on this list, who are currently
using RaQs, even if they feel the RaQs limitations, would be better
served by going out and buying the Sun box, is the misinformation.  Just
a difference of opinion between us is all.

> You know as well as I do that they will be better off in the
> long run after Cobalt has been dissolved and Sun kills and stops
> supporting the RaQ/Qube product line.

This is your opinion.  Personally I believe Sun bought Cobalt because
they do want to offer an entry-level (from the admin point of view)
solution to non-MS-based Internet service providing, and that they'll
continue to leverage on the Cobalt product line.

> Take care.

I do <smile>.

Jeff
-- 
Jeff Lasman <jblists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
nobaloney.net
P. O. Box 52672
Riverside, CA  92517
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