[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [cobalt-users] Attention List users.... (Long Response)

At 04:51 AM 1/26/2001 -0500, you wrote:

Snip >>>>self serving nonsense.


Spam:
On this we need to be somewhat aggressive so that the list does not become
the target of every person that writes a Perl script.  I think if someone
creates a free package, and or contributes to the list they should be
permitted to post updates and they should have a place in the currently
non-existent User list depository...  Regardless they should at least be
cobalt specific.

I think we see a few Spams a month and someone should make a complaint to a
list of places determined and maintained by us the users and the only post
that should be added to the thread is "Reported via our list of places to
report"  We don't need to talk about each and every one.
"We" need to be, "I think..." I get somewhere around 1500 e-mail daily, from the various list-serv's I belong to as a mainframe system programmer and DP consultant. I get some spam too. I don't like it, but it's far easier to hit delete than it is for me to zing letter to the list or the complaint bureaus. Just my $0.02... 


Why I did this:
A chain of events over the last few years has caused me to re-evaluate what
I want to do in life.  I decided some time ago that I wanted to do something
to help as many people as I could.  This list seemed like the place I could
do just that.  I am currently unemployed or self employed and I'm not really
making anything to support myself.  I decided a few weeks back that I would
try to make this list the "receiver" of the help I can give and God willing
I would be able to provide of myself.


Well, thank you Zeffie for saving us.


Everyday I wake up and check my server and start answering mail or I work on
projects of interest like Redhat, Debian, new and old packages.  If I'm
lucky I get to eat 1 small meal during the day.  Then I go to bed....  I do
get out to the country sometimes and there I work for free for another close
friend.  It allows me to do some hard physical labor and blow up butane cans
in the fire pit. I really enjoy the work as I have always been a hard
worker.
That's nice, I put my 20 hours a day in too, and I have 3 kids to deal with and a number of clients. And I get to teach scuba diving sometimes. So what? 


When I get behind in reading the posts I will often spend my weekend reading
all the posts...  The last time I tried to do this with a small amount of
posts (1426) I got disgusted by all the "OT's" I saw and found the batch was
a waste of time to read... I put them in a new unread folder and marked them
all read and I went to the country :)


Get a Life.


I came back to the list and the OT posts declined right away... I was
surprised by this....  So I decided I would make my own noise to read and
try and drive home a few things...  After I started to go full speed at
posting answers.  I added a few "noise" posts in hopes it would make a
dent....  I was then attacked right and left.  I might add that many of the
posts where very public and very insulting.


Who appointed you God?



Professional forum:
****With a small few people excluded****
Few of you have acted like professionals
None of you has made a free package for others.
None of you have created one little bit of html on the web of your own work.
Most of you are part time webmasters.
The Responses I have gotten for posting answers are not professional....
You have not acted professionally at all, for someone who has been doing this "for 20 years." Wanna see my MVS systems I built? Wanna see how many users see the stuff I do? Again, so what. I am a part time webmaster and a full time data processing consultant. 



How many times do we have to post back things like...
Read the manual on page X
What's the domain name?
What's the ip number?
How many ip's do you have?
What is that software?
What is the error message?
What do you have in some box in your gui?
What is a link to that software?
What is the output of ps -aux
What product do you have?
What does the top of top look like?
What is the output of /sbin/ifconfig?
Did you do your updates?
Did your problems occur after you did the updates...
Have you checked your messages?
As long as we have newbies. Or were you born knowing this stuff? You never asked a dumb question? You knew instinctively where all the documentation was? You've done this for 20 years and have perfect documentation all the time? I go through this every day with 20 year professionals. That's why I have plenty of MVS work to do. 


How many times do we hear!
Thanks "Whoever"
I'm selling my whatever
Go Search the archives
That's the active monitor
Is the current update safe to do?
Read this "Clue" in the archives
So now we don't say "Thank you?' Or tell people where this stuff is? You know, doesn't mean they know. Is the current update safe is a perfectly valid question, and isn't asked enough. There are NO STUPID QUESTIONS, Zeffie. ONLY THE ONES NOT ASKED. If you can't be bothered, hit the delete key. I assume in 20 years you've figured out where that is. 


Do we have any room on the Cobalt site.... NO!
And why?  Because this list has nothing to put on it....
(Not to be confused with individual works)
No Faq's
No How To's
No Packages
No Resources
No Links page
No Developers
No Content Period
We are Nothing more then a bathroom wall.


SO, complain to Cobalt/Sun.


It would be nice to ask cobalt to supply a Raq for this users group using
the cobalt name but think about it?  If you where a business would you want
this list and it's chat content to become public???  They don't make it
public now because it must be almost embarrassing to them.  I wouldn't do
anything like "creating a better way to search the archives?"  Would You?
For your business?  I would rather not have my customers get poor or
miss-information.  Ask yourself... What would you do?
Do you belong to any other lists? There are plenty hosted by the coffers of IBM that handle "stupid" questions. What are you embarrassed about this list? This is a nice, valuable forum except when you are flaming. And cursing. And wishing every newbie would get lost in the Antarctic. Sure there are stupid questions. The only people who don't ask stupid questions are the people who don't ask them at all. Sorry, but you are NOT the only person on this list, and they don't need your approval to be here. 


This isn't a professional forum its a Chat room!  At the moment this is a
dysfunctional chat room at best.  I am a professional.... I live, eat, and
sleep this stuff and have for over 20 years.


Who cares. You are not professional. See your previous flames.


So here are some things for you folks to decide
Do you really want all this chat or do you want some resources?
Would you like a list of user created programs and packages?
Would you like a area where we can declare packages as safe?
Would you like a area that contains information for your questions?
Would you like to develop a site with information for newbies?
Would you like to improve Your Cobalt experience?
What your question really is (see below) is do we want Zeffie? Well, Zeff, my vote is NO if you are going to continue in this vein. If you can stop the flaming, complaining, and general nastiness, then your input is certainly valuable. The list is better with your skill set available to it. But not if you are going to be this disruptive. You are setting the bad example, and I would certainly be embarrassed of a list where such flaming went on regularly. 


We are the only ones that can make something out of this list
I can do the some of the work but I can't do it without the support of the
list members here.  I now find myself needing to make a decision as to where
my efforts best lie.  I have to make a choice.
So make your decision. Don't count on us to do it for you. Take some responsibility. Or are you Clinton in disguise? 


I see some fine people on this list with varying areas of expertise.
Together we can make this list and the materials produced something we can
be proud of and that coblat could begin to consider supporting more then
they are now.  We can do it if we work together and make some standards and
take control of this...  this mess.


Yes we can. Can you behave yourself?


Now I'm asking you to make a choice.
Both gif's are the same.
Vote yes if you want more from this list
http://vote.zeffie.com/yes.gif
Vote no if you don't and you think I should go away.
http://vote.zeffie.com/no.gif


See above.


The stats will be at http://vote.zeffie.com/stats/

Zeffie
I do this for "brain candy" and to help people.  Not because I have too....


I do this to make a living.
Sorry for the pontificating and the long post.

Doug





Doug Fuerst
Consultant
BK Associates
Brooklyn, NY
(718) 921-2620
djfirst@xxxxxx