RE: OpenSRS (Was: Re: [cobalt-users] Was Names4Ever, now OpenSRS)

["John Burgess" <john.burgess@xxxxxxxxxx>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cobalt-users-admin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:cobalt-users-admin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jeff Lasman
> Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 3:53 PM
> To: cobalt-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: OpenSRS (Was: Re: [cobalt-users] Was Names4Ever, now OpenSRS)
>
>
> John Burgess wrote:
>
> > The mirror thing would seem to be requirement, but they might not be
> > enforcing it. I have seen some posts in this list (or maybe
> one of the
> > OpenSRS lists) from individuals who have been set-up as
> virtually hosted
> > resellers.  Tucows says they require you to be a Tucows affiliate.
>
> Where do they say this?  I just looked over the entire site,
> and I don't
> see it.
>

To get the $2 discount.  They didn't have the $2 discount program when I
started with them.



> > Requirements for affiliates are at
> > http://affiliate.tucows.com/application.html.
>
> Yes, but nowhere did I find the statement that you have to be an
> affiliate to be in OpenSRS.
>
Like I said, I was one of the early adopters so things are changing.

> > The mirror sites allow you to place some small graphics and
> links to where
> > ever you want.  Since I personally find banner advertising
> distracting to
> > say the least (what I really think of it I shall not say in
> a public forum),
> > I find this to be an acceptable trade off.  The public gets
> a very good
> > repository of free software and other 'stuff' (I do all 7 mirrors),
>
> Take it from me, I'm a Tucows user:  the fact is that I and
> other users,
> look to what we perceive as the "best" place to download.  The guys
> we've never heard of we don't click on.  So how much of the
> public will
> really see you.  The key question to ask is for hosting
> companies to let
> us know how many people actually use their Tucows mirrors.  I think of
> it as an exercise in futility.
>
> > I
> > provide what I feel is a community resource,
>
> Only if people actually look at it and use it as a community
> resource.
> So tell me, what do your usage logs show?

I'll send you some stats.  Don't have time to run them right this second.
Last I checked it was a several thousand visitors a day, mostly AOL, then
University of Texas, RoadRunner, SBC DSL users, and Russia.

>
> > and I get some small amount of
> > exposure from the mirrors in a setting I find acceptable.
> And at some point
> > when I have my infrastructure as automated as I want it to
> be, I might
> > actually have time make effective use of the exposure.  I'm
> not saving on
> > any upstream bandwidth, 875 of my Dialup pops are upstream.
>  I pay for my
> > bandwidth too, but not by the byte.
>
> I can pay either way.  I choose to pay by the byte; it's a lot less
> expensive.
>
> So my next question is: "What's your inbound data transfer every month
> to do updates?"
>

I haven't been keeping the net flow logs.  I have it, (will want it working
when the DS3's are turned up), But right now I don't need it.  But the
updates aren't bad. They run 6 times a day so they are short.  It's that
first download that'll kill you.

> > I'm not co-located, I built my own NOC.
> > (Crazy?  Maybe.  But I'm not accustomed to be told what I
> can and can't do
> > with a network.  I'm using T1's that can sustain maximum
> theoretical port
> > speed indefinitely; the DS3's are in but not turned up yet,
> so I'm not in
> > danger of getting billed for excess port usage), and I monitor and
> > dynamically regulate the T1 usage.
>
> Most people don't do what you do.  Do you balance your inbound and
> outbound transit?  If you've got more inbound than outbound, you
> certainly don't want to suck for mirrors.  If you've more
> outbound than
> inbound, you certainly don't want to add to it by allowing people to
> suck from you.
>

Yes, I do balance it. And I run several Cisco Cache Engines just for good
measure.  It helps response time on the outbound side.


> If you've got much more inbound than outbound, Akami will pay
> you to use
> some of your outbound, and will give you the servers to enable it.
>

I didn't know that.  But there is a news article last week (I'll dig it up
if you are interested) that states once Akami has gone into the web hosting
business themselves, and are now cutting into the large web hosters customer
base.


> As a colocator I have lots of advantages, but building your own NOC
> gives you lots of advantages, too, so, no, I don't think
> you're crazy.
> I'm triple homed at one of my sites, quadruple-homed at another, and
> I've got the best bgp guys around working to make sure I'm always
> connected.  Can you tell your customers the same?
>
There are better connected hosters for sure, but not for long.  But I don't
lack the
connectivity.  Backbone providers have fallen all over each other to hook me
up.  It is just a matter of a little time.  Like your, my business is built
on customer service.  Providing what my customers need, and not just what is
on my line card or in the policy and procedures manual.

> > It operates on bandwidth that would go
> > unused anyway (who wants to waste bandwidth *smile*).  I
> set the mirror
> > traffic to runs at a much lower priority than email,
> customer web sites,
> > etc, so the bandwidth use varies inversely to the amount of revenue
> > generating traffic.
>
> So it works for you.  I still think there's better usage for the
> bandwidth, but if you don't think so, well that's okay <smile>.
>
> > Payment is made either by a deposit account or you can go
> thorough the
> > process of getting credit setup with them so you can be
> invoiced.  I presume
> > most resellers use deposit accounts because setting up
> credit can take time.
> > You make your deposits with credit cards, checks, bank
> transfers, etc and
> > you then have a pool of 'domain years' against which your
> registrations are
> > applied.  I think the minimum initial account deposit is 50
> domain years
> > ($500).
>
> $500 is for quickstart; the full package requires only $250.
> Sure seems
> like it should be the other way around though <wry grin>.
>
No, I don't use quick start.  There was no quickstart when I started with
them.

> > You keep track of all your account information, change your DNS
> > servers, contact information, check your account balance,
> set up customer
> > letters, etc on-line via the web.
>
> You're using quickstart then.  I'd implement it as "full" so
> I could set
> up my own websites to look like Network Solutions.  If I wanted to use
> the "web" I'd stay where I am now.  See my previous posts on this and
> other lists as to why I consider scripts and templates better than the
> "web".
>
No, I'm not using quick start.  I am full - see for yourself.
https://domains.fastex.net

The web interface is available to you whether or not your quickstart.  And
you will use it to. Gives the reseller many options for administration that
you can't develop on your own because you aren't going to get direct access
to NSI interfaces unless you are an ICANN registrar.

> > I've found OpenSRS to be an cost-effective alternative to
> putting up the
> > required bond and paying the required software fees to be an ICANN
> > accredited registrar.
>
> Definitely.
>
> > I just wanted to let you know also, I am completely
> > independent, and other than hosting the Tucows mirrors
>
> Your concept of "completely independent" is somewhat different than
> mine.  You've committed to mirror seven sites a day, and if you don't,
> they'll turn off your OpenSRS?  I don't call that "completely
> independent".  I've even got a bit of trouble calling it "somewhat
> independent" <smile>.  Your mileage may (and probably does) differ
> <smile>.
>

Believe me, I am about as independent as you can get in this business.  I
haven't taken any vc money (yet),  I don't owe the bank.  I   My only
"obligation" to Tucows is to tell them if I'm shutting the mirrors down.

> > and being an
> > independent reseller using OpenSRS, I am in no way
> connected with them,
>
> Except that you MUST carry their mirror, complete with its advertising
> for what may be your competition (see I did read all the fine print).
>

Yes, the advertising on the mirrors in unfortunate, but as I said, it is a
free service, and that is where I draw the line.

> > so
> > it is really in my best interest to recommend some other
> registrars reseller
> > program to you.  I don't need the competition *smile*.
>
> Not sure I understand.  As long as I'm selling registration,
> and I sell
> it now, to ISPs and hosting companies, then I'm a competitor.
>

Well, you certainly are, but if you are buying domains from someone instead
of selling,
then you might be a customer of mine someday.

> I make no bones about it; my interest in OpenSRS is NOT to save my
> customers money.  They can register with me or anywhere else.
>  It's NOT
> to have the lowest price.
>
> It's not even to have a lot of retail business.
>
> It's specifically because no one yet has created a really
> ISP/IPP-friendly service, working entirely from templates, with no
> advertising and no adverse contracts.  And that's what I want to do.
>

I would have to disagree.  OpenSRS is exactly what you describe.  I provide
it
as a service to my customers, I make a few dollars (not much), and I even
provide
a branded site my afilliated resellers.  I do not as or require them to
carry anything promoting
my company.  They can appear as independent as they wish.

> If you care to get involved in MY project, or to learn how to
> make some
> money with your available outbound bandwidth, let me know.  Maybe you
> can do some colocation for me <smile>.
>

I'd love to hear your ideas.  Email me.

> > P.S.
> > I saw the Interactive Week Special Report
> >
(http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/stories/news/0,4164,2473709-3,00.html) that
> you were quoted in.  I wanted to ask you, in what context were your
remarks
> made?  The DSL battle or something else?

Specifically the DSL battle.  I think Randy Barrett is pretty
responsible as journalists go; I don't think he'd quote me or anyone
else out of context.  He quotes me quite a bit; I know how to sound
"quotable" <smile>.

Jeff
--
Jeff Lasman <jblists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
nobaloney.net
P. O. Box 52672
Riverside, CA  92517
voice: (909) 787-8589  *  fax: (909) 782-0205

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