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RE: [cobalt-users] Help please.

At 01:35 PM 3/6/00 +0000, you wrote:


If you do not wish to reply to people asking for help - go elsewhere.
Gee, Amy, you're letting yourself into a lot of flaming. I hope the list in general is a bit more grown up than to let that happen... we shall see <smile>... 


This is the most unhelpful e-mail list, I have ever come across.


Maybe you haven't come across too many.
And personally, I take personal offense to your statement. I budget an hour daily to help people on this specific list, and usually I spend more than three. I carefully research everything before I post an answer, since memory isn't always accurate. I do this cheerfully, and make no charge for it. Though I've occasionally told people I'll be happy to consult with them, that's only when the work is more than a few minutes, and very specific to their situation; otherwise I'll happily do it onlist as time permits. I've gotten more than a bit of consulting from list-subscribers who've written me and ask if I consult, because they thought my answers show a bit of clue.
And I'm not the smartest or most experienced person on this list by a long shot.
If you're not willing to play by the (admittedly, largely unwritten) rules, then you WILL find that people are unwilling to help you. And then yes, for YOU, this list will be extremely unhelpful. But it's your call. When I was little my step-mom always told me "You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar." Knowing the analogy full well, but nevertheless always wanting to get in the last word, I always answered with "Yeah, but who wants flies?"
Now I'm a bit older. I realize that I really don't want the last word; I want to be part of a community, to help when I can, and to get help when I need. Sounds a little Marxist maybe, but I like it <smile>. 


As for replies at the top - this the default on the majority of e-mail
clients (I.E. MS).
Also Netscape. It happens to be a bad default. And the excuse will at best fall on deaf ears. At best it will bring you diatribes about how Microsoft breaks almost EVERY rule in the book. At worst it will bring you what we call "killfiling". Then we won't even see your posts. 


Why should I or others have to keep scrolling to the bottom of every e-mail,
when we have been reading the thread to date. All we are interested in is
the answer - the question we already know.
Maybe you only read a few posts a day, and you can remember all of them. I read about 400, after a recent trimming. I often don't remember.
But I agree with one point, I don't like scrolling down to the bottom to see what's said.
That's why I only quote the lines to which I'm responding, and respond immediately below them. It's a good habit to get into.
You've probably seen some of my testier replies to this list; usually they happen after I've been reading a lot of badly formatted posts <frown>. 


I realise that your e-mail is one of sarcasm, but many people on this list
are new to the world of servers, they wish to learn, but often cannot find
the answers to their questions in the archives. So what so they do- they
ask.


And they usually get the answer here.


This is a Cobalt list, one supported and promoted by Cobalt to take some of
the burden from other support lines. It does not put Cobalt in a good light
if people like you, keep on criticising others.
This list is sponsored by Cobalt. All the answers on this list come from private individuals on their own time. Even the people who work for Cobalt, I believe, are answering on this list privately on their own time. 


If you can't stand the heat - get out of the fire.


You seem to be the person who can't stand the heat.


Join in or get lost.
I've just checked my own personal archives, which don't go back very far. I've got 2,810 messages from THIS list archived. Your contributions so far: one. This one. 

So who's more valuable to the list?  Dom Latter?  Mat Kovach?  Or you?


Now that is off my chest, can we please get on with supporting each other,
than snipping.
No, Amy. I don't know how I can say this respectfully, but I'll try. I believe the word you meant is sniping, since snipping means "cutting" and we're not cutting you (yet). And you're the one who's doing it. And you're doing it against the people on this list who are most apt to help you.
Believe it or not we do understand that there are a lot of "clueless newbies" as we sometimes call them on this list. And we try very hard to be helpful rather than condescending.
And I don't think you really know what a "rant" is, in the mailing-list/usenet-news use of the term, either.
You really do need to know a bit about netiquette and list-netiquette, if you want to get good help from this mailing list in particular if not mailing lists in general. But maybe you don't; you've only posted here this one time in my archiving history. 

Maybe you just pay Cobalt their $200/hour.  I'm sure they're happy to take it.

Jeff

--
Jeff Lasman <jblists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>